Forum « Ecological crisis or life style crisis ? »

• well, we hope we don't have to reach the point where the question of money makes no sense, i mean the time when saying this action (desalination of the water for example) costs that amount and that one (lipposuccion for example) costs this amount blabla had no more any sense, cause as maybe Raging Bull had said « there will be a moment when the white man will understand that he couldn't eat money » and he could have added « and that he couldn't breath money ».
• You talk about what ? The moment when the banking structures would have collapsed ?well, we hope we don't have to reach the point where the question of money makes no sense, i mean the time when saying this action (desalination of the water for example) costs that amount and that one (lipposuccion for example) costs this amount blabla had no more any sense, cause as maybe Raging Bull had said « there will be a moment when the white man will understand that he couldn't eat money » and he could have added « that he couldn't breath money ».
• We have to find a way for money as an universal exchange value to be linked to something real in the nature as it used to be before the 70's. It's that rupture between the real of wealth in the nature and the wealth of the just human world, it means bureaucracy, that had opened a door for a massive pollution and corruption.
• I agree that we need to find a way to avoid that money generates money without having do its little travel in the real. This is very important.
• Whatever, I hope we don't have to reach the point where money makes absolutly no sense, but maybe i'm wrong, we need to reach artificially that point before it would be reached economically, so humans will enter then in cooperation to avoid the catastrophe .
• Isn't that point already has been reached ?
• But this is an optimistic scenario ! My experience of becoming poor is not about the discovery of the beautiful coopération among the people but that people need to wipe their feets on others in order to feel good ! But I still believe in egality, it's a long way or maybe it has been a long way and we're nearly to reach it.
• Well, trying to keep money as a universal value of exchange allow to avoid the question of good or bad nature for the human beings or the bullshit of a psychological management of the people.
• I was thinking our society 's got a problem with CO2 not with money !
• Well, if people didn't have make money by producing CO2, they would'nt have done it ! They don't have produced CO2 for the pleasure of the smell of it !
• The other day, there were a graphic in a newspaper explaining the production of CO2 for transportation in France is 53,2% done by personnal cars. So it's really the model of one personne in one thermic car that's is the problem for our planet!
• And what is the part of transportation in the total production of CO2 in France and in the world ?
• For sure, if you've got public transportation that go in front of the supermarket, so customers could do their shopping by bus and employees could go to their work by bus ! Is this a such hard thing to organize between cities and supermarkets ?
• The layout of a bus line is a battle of Titans ! I would rather bet on electric cars, mini electric public bus and electric bicycles.
• You're right but we also have to remember that shops were used to be in the center of the towns ...
• As long as I know it, when you have to handle your shopping, you don't buy the same thing and you pay more attention that if you're just fill a caddie and then your car.
• Elders are always complaining but they really buy stupids things in supermarkets. So many sweets and donuts !
• Arrête de faire des généralités, t'as pleins de vieux qui s'occupent de leurs petits enfants, et c'est pour eux qu'ils achètent des sucreries !
• Ben, ils n'ont qu'à confectionner leurs biscuits eux-mêmes !
• Bon, primo, cela n'est pas sûr que cela soit moins cher
• Ben en tout cas cela sera moins degueu
• Et deuxio cela n'est pas sûr que cela soit moins degueu ! Tu es pour la liberté individuelle ? Alors laisse ceux et celles qui veulent des conneries de l'agroalimentaire les acheter si cela leur fait plaisir.
• Mais cela ne leur fait pas plaisir ! Tu ne peux pas dire cela !
• C'est trop compliqué.
• Tu peux pas dire qu'un bon shoot d'héroïne fait plaisir à un drogué.
• C'est plus compliqué.
• Donc le problème n'est pas un simple problème écologique, c'est un problème d'organisation sociale, est-cela dont vous voulez nous parler ?
• You switch in french, is that a peculiar french problem ?
• I don't think the inflation of bullshit to sell is a peculiar french problem. It's global !
• Is DVD included in the bullshit to sell from your point of view ?
• Ok, this conversation is going nowhere ! We have to rethink differently our way of living cause the way of living that is selling us in the adverts is not sustainable for our planet.
• Ok ! One point.
• I tell you : if money doesn't not produce money by itself, we for sure have a more solid ground to begin to think.

(to be continued)