Forum « Are art contemporain and art brut the same boat or is it a rocket ? »

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  • I read in a french magazine something about the art brut that really makes me angry.
  • Angry ?
  • Well, it was said more or less that the artists of art brut could not deal with such talent within the society than the artists of art contemporain, and by that reading i just feel vomit to come.
  • Come on, it's not wrong... Look at Maurizio CATTELAN, he did it well for his monumental sculpture in the front of the Milan Stock Exchange ..
  • What did he do ?
  • Well, i just read once this story, it needed to be checked, but for what i know, he had proposed to the Stock Exchange of Milan to put a monumental sculpture of his own in front of their building, he proposed a kind of basic fascist sculpture, a stupid big opened hand and as his work is highly rated on the art market, people in the Milan Stock Exchange agreed, so CATTELAN had put first the huge palm, then a huge index and after nothing, he stopped. So when you went to the Stock Exchange in Milan you could see just before this huge « fuck you » sign !
  • HAHAHAHAHA ! The big message of the money makers to the world ! HAHAHAHAHA
  • I had thought it was the message of CATTELAN to the people working in the Stock Exchange ..
  • It could be the two things... So you see, CATTELAN managed it with talent within the society cause he's not an artist of art brut but an artist of art contemporain.
  • This is wrong ! CATTELAN did it very well to do a very good stupid joke to people that needed to be laughed at (it was before 2007, wasn't it?) but in that trick, he did not produce an art work, he used his artistic aura to make a very good joke, it's not the same.
  • Don't you think he produces then an art work ? I mean the whole process could be the artistic thing...
  • Come on, not that bullshit please ! I say : he produced a very good joke. I mean i don't have a personnal hierarchy between joke and art. Jokes are important. Art works are important.
  • Yeah but there's a big lack of a good History of jokes ..
  • Yeah, the joker is an specific card in the play cards. The presence of the non player as the ultime play …
  • HAHAHAHAHA !
  • Ok. « la nona hora », that is a CATTELAN 'work ,always makes me laughed. This pope, Jean-Paul II, brought down by a meteorite ! it 's so funny and such a good sum up of the crisis of religions in front of sciences !
  • It's an art work ! I saw it in the real, it belongs to François PINAULT that had made some exhibitions of his art collections in Dinard a small city next to my village and where PINAULT's got two huge houses. Well, it's a very clever art work, it works very well for pictures more than in exhibition but that is, was maybe ( i'm out now), a general problem for recent contemporary art works cause the press had taken the power to define and to point out, so to present well on a picture was a criteria but i think it's bullshit compared to the presence o the work in the real. Nowadays i don't know how it works. I personnaly consider that the media power had flowed back …
  • So it's because your attention is on the art works and not on the artists that you can't stand the blabla explaining the distinction between art brut and art contemporain.
  • That's it !
  • Well, i understand that. I've got an example to explore the reverse of that. It's years i heard about Elon MUSK but french journalists always talked about him as an « excentric milliardaire », so that's not interesting and that's not what he is : he's an artist. There were all those blabla around the artist as an entrepreneur and so Jeff KOONs should be the most representative of that, blabla, that was bullshit ! Elon MUSK is the artist entrepreneur, he creates worlds ! I mean Space X, TESLA, even the Boring company are worlds.
  • Oh yeah, i agree, it's such male worlds ! I adore them ! WAOW !
  • Well, can't judge really about that but those worlds are on the top, funny and they're real. That Starman in the deep space, that's an artwork !
  • I was thinking it was a big advert for TESLA !
  • You're jealous and stupid !
  • No, you're stupid ! So if Elon MUSK is an artist, does he do art brut or art contemporain ?
  • Don't know, what is the difference ?
  • Commercial art, maybe …
  • HAHAHAHA !
  • OK, I agree that a lot of journalists are just fascinated by the money of MUSK and just don't understand why he's doing things and being such involved in doing them …
  • Well, in a lot of medias, journalists are just talking about the show of money, the business show ! That's the only thing that deeply interests them ! That's why poor people can't stand them …
  • Well, they're also interested in the sex show... Money and sex are the two teats of the world, well, just try to speak like QUESNAY.
  • Contemporary Physiocracy ?
  • Maybe Elon MUSK doesn't have any money and fakes to have a lot so he's got the attention of media and money goes to money, that's the first lesson of an swindler !
  • You're really stupid !
  • No, you say journalists are fascinated by money and sex and so what ? They're excepted to be whipped by the one who's got the money, that's it ? « I've got the money, i can run the bordel », is it how you're thinking ?
  • … i won't answer to you... I should have said the show of sex desires …
  • And love ? What about love ?
  • Well, i saw the MUSK enterprises as painters ateliers in the middle age and Renaissance. They're not « manufacture », they're « ateliers » where Elon MUSK and his teams could follow their ideas : idea of an electric car, idea of a commercial rocket, idea of a tunnel network. It could look the same, they product goods and services but it is not. That's a way of doing art for the XXIe century.
  • That's why i already said that the GIGA Factory is that conceptual factory that DELEUZE talked about as the human unconscious.
  • I don't get that point of « unconscious ». They know they produce the future !
  • The unconscious is ignored by the conscious, the unconscious is not unconscious if i may say …
  • HAHAHAHAHA !
  • So when you buy a tesla car model III, you buy an art work, that's it ?
  • Well, seems to me that the owners of such cars know it...
  • HAHAHAHAHA !
  • Well, i guess what people call a « start-up » is what you call an « atelier ».
  • I was thinking that a « start-up » is to earn money, an atelier is to explore and if you can earn money with it, you're the winner !
  • I think « start up » is to explore an idea, to start up with an idea... you're really really stupid.
  • Does somebody can explain me what could be a centric milliardaire ?
  • HAHAHAHAHA !
  • Well, i'm part of the people that think that every human being is an artist, so it's not the point. I think Elon MUSK is an entrepreneur and a very good one. I mean, here in France also we had this kind of people : this old polytechnician engineer who had run Saint GOBAIN, can't remember his name, he's really fond of the products that Saint GOBAIN could do ! And he pissed on the polytechnician engineers that went working on the trade market and Stock Exchange !
  • There was also that man, chef d'entreprise, that committed suicide last year maybe, because of the bankruptcy, can't remember his name neither .. i mean the arrogant executive chief always saying that he/she 's the best so that why his/her wages are so high and that more or less just do cost kills and cut down, that profile is an aberration for economy, a kind of economic cancer that needed to be stopped. Economy needs good entrepreneur and if they like making jokes and arts, so that's fun but it's not compulsary...
  • I agree.
(to be followed)



Saint-GOBAIN (patriotisme économique) : 


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